ChartAttack.com: Pumpkins’ tour “is completely absent of hits”
November 21st, 2008 by jjbtags: kate harper, bullshit, tour, analysis, criticism
Kate Harper of Chart Communications (”publisher of the leading Canadian music website CHARTattack.com and the country’s longest running and most respected music magazine, CHART Magazine”) today takes it upon herself to answer a question she attributes to Billy Corgan:
“…How come people just aren’t happy with us?”
I’m willing to bet it has something to do with the fact that your anniversary tour is completely absent of hits and that you’ve been antagonistic towards your audiences throughout the tour, Billy. Let’s not forget that earlier in the tour when a fan gave Corgan the finger, the frontman invited him up on stage to ask why he had cursed at him with his digit. The fan said it was because he sucked. Corgan called the fan “James Iha.” All these things might have something to do with it.
The Smashing Pumpkins’ combined two-night setlist includes “1979″, “Bullet with Butterfly Wings”, “Today”, “Tonight, Tonight”, “Disarm”, “Cherub Rock”, “Zero”, “Ava Adore”, “Landslide”, “Eye”, and “Tarantula” — all told, that is eleven of the band’s seventeen top-10 modern rock hits. And need I point out how that list of eleven includes all of the band’s truly famous songs? The six omitted top-10 hits are “Thirty-three”, “The End Is the Beginning Is the End”, “Perfect”, “Stand Inside Your Love”, “Muzzle”, and “The Everlasting Gaze” — not a cultural touchstone in the bunch.
Furthermore, Ms. Harper’s story from “earlier in the tour” is in fact a story from her imagination. In neither of the incidents involving an angry fan did the fan tell Corgan that “he sucked”; what the fan in New York said “sucked” was not Corgan but was the previous night’s show, and…let’s allow Calvin in Washington to straighten this out himself:
To clarify:
I didn’t say the show sucked, i didn’t say he sucked.
We never reported that you did, sir, and neither did anyone else.
Obviously, then, as neither fan told Corgan that he sucked, Corgan could not have referred to any such fan as “James Iha”…and ironically, upon reaching the stage in Washington, the first words out of the mouth of the fan whom Corgan did call “James Iha” (at 3:20 in this mp3 from archive.org) were: “I love you.” Oops.
So, Ms. Harper, it appears that your article is absent…of accuracy…wait, that’s not even proper English! Did you mean to say the tour is completely bereft of hits? For the love of God, get another job.
November 21st, 2008 at 11:08 pm
what a surprise, more lazy internet journalism.
November 21st, 2008 at 11:13 pm
this is a great post.
November 21st, 2008 at 11:25 pm
It’s lame that you can’t directly contact Kate Harper by email.
November 22nd, 2008 at 12:15 am
Did she even do any research to write this article, or did she just play “telephone” (you know, the game where one person says something in the next person’s ear, and then the next person says it to the next person, and so on, and so on, until you get a completely jumbled story at the end)? Absolutely ridiculous.
November 22nd, 2008 at 12:35 am
Next James and D’arcy will land in a spaceship on wrigley field and play the aforementioned “hits”
rC Start traditions ……. no shit
November 22nd, 2008 at 1:10 am
Does this dumb bitch really think the hits are all that matter? See fails to see that old fan-favorites such as Soma, Mayonaise, Bodies, IotM, Cupid, Age Of Innocence, Crestfallen, TBITEITB, Eye are ALL being played over the course of the nights? Do some damn research. And if you think “modern rock hits” are all that mean anything at a show, well then I feel bad for you and anyone related to you.
OH, before I forget. The played all of the bands’ singles, save for the Machina ones, and TEITBITE, Thirty-Three, Rocket and Rhinoceros. I Am One and Muzzle, if you count those. If they played every last single…it would be a singles-fest…and whats the fun in that? Shallow bitch, think before you speak.
November 22nd, 2008 at 1:47 am
You guys here at Hipster’s United need to get off Billy’s dick. Seriously. This tour is a fucking joke and you know it. Kazoos and 20 minute rambling shit jams? Really? And Billy wonders why we’re all pissed? WTF people, yes the hits “matter”. Check out any Weezer, Oasis, Foo Fighters, R.E.M. concerts. You know, “alt-rock shows”, guess what they play? ALBUM TRACKS PEOPLE. Not lame covers of songs nobody knows or “new” songs nobody likes. Billy’s fucking lost it and you people can’t get your heads out of his ass to understand it.
November 22nd, 2008 at 2:17 am
Any casual Floyd fan should know “Set the Controls.” And any old school Pumpkins fan would know the pumpkins have always had a tendency to end their shows with 20-30 minute tripped-out jams, from Silverfuck, Transmission,(also a cover) to just plain walls of noise. They started out a psychedelic-goth band and have evolved into a psychedelic-prog band. Maybe it’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but I love when they get all spacey
November 22nd, 2008 at 2:28 am
DiscoJon, go after Billy for playing a long Pink Floyd cover or for playing new songs all you want — I may not agree, but at least that would be an argument over what’s actually taking place. I would think we can agree it is only worth arguing over real issues.
So what is really happening? They are playing all the big hits, as documented in the post, plus GLOW (only made it to the modern rock top 11!) and That’s the Way. So that’s thirteen singles. Now, here are thirteen album cuts they are playing: Siva, Mayonaise, United States, Once Upon a Time, Glass’ Theme, Cupid de Locke, Soma, Bodies, Crestfallen, I of the Mourning, MCIS, Galapogos, and Age of Innocence. Two b-sides: Speed Kills and Transformer. Toss in TBITEITB. Three songs from American Gothic.
Do you see that we are already up to 32 songs? 16 songs per night is essentially enough to fill two shows and send the people home. So are you not literally pissed off over what amounts to extra music? If you and I were hanging out at the show and you were bitching that the show was too long while I was still trying to listen, I imagine I’d tell you to go home or to get a fucking beer or to go take a piss if you were that offended.
After all the exaggerations and distortions (e.g., the false notion that there are multiple 20-minute jams) are removed…doesn’t this look like just another Smashing Pumpkins tour? Billy’s confrontational antics aside, what exactly about it is so damned infuriating? I hope people realize that this band doesn’t have to be playing concerts at all. Billy could be counting money and sitting in his Chicago penthouse (and the irony is, if that’s what he were doing, D.Jon wouldn’t be bitching). That he puts all this effort together in order to play 3 1/2 hours of known songs and do 1 1/2 hours of jamming is something I consider a blessing.
November 22nd, 2008 at 2:47 am
By the way - this is apropos of nothing and proves nothing, but I just wanted to share that it happened - I was at a work function tonight and this colleague of mine was there, a guy I knew to be a Pumpkins fan but I’ve never told him I run a fan blog or anything, and he has usually dominated our brief conversations about them (and all our conversations…), though usually we talk business. Well, at this event he comes up to me and immediately starts bragging about having been sixth row for “Black Sunshine” in DC and he just went on and on about how brilliant he thought it was, how he couldn’t believe how relevant to the current scene he thought the band sounded, and what a douche he thought the guy a few rows back who was yelling during “Set the Controls” was — particularly since my friend and his wife are huge Floyd fans who couldn’t believe the Pumpkins were playing it and thought it was great. I told him I’d been at the shows, but really I hardly said a word, haha.
rC: “Frisco sensitive”
November 22nd, 2008 at 3:40 am
You know, I think you just let a troll get to you jjb. He didn’t even have a real argument. “Seriously” was his argument. Did you have to respond to him at such a length?
Strangely, I think he’s the prototypical concert goer that fills up the stand. They expect a show that is in their safe zone and doesn’t stray to far from what little they know. Of course the “hits” matter cause well, that’s all they’ve got on their playlist. If it goes on longer than normal or differently, then they get defensive/disappointed. They probably feel left out. But he doesn’t even know what the hits are, otherwise he wouldn’t be so upset.
And if he was being genuine, I’m amazed at his level of asinine resentment. I wonder how he reacts when he encounters a real problem.
November 22nd, 2008 at 7:53 am
Wow. You sure did assume a lot from my one bitchy post, “Self-Respecting Brain”. You’ve got me all figured out. I go to concerts to be in my safe zone and only like hits because I’m a lazy person who feels left out and disappointed when I encounter a real problem. Yup, that’s the ticket.
Please, go listen to another Kazoo encore and tell me that everything is a-okay.
November 22nd, 2008 at 8:42 am
@DiscoJon “ALBUM TRACKS PEOPLE”
Gee over the 2 nights at a glance i just counted 28 album tracks, 3 b-sides, 5 covers, 8 new songs and a drum solo.
As for people here being on Corgans dick maybe you should read through some of the posts and be amazed by how objective everyone here has been about this current tour wether it be negetive or positive and if the band just isn’t for you anymore walk the fuck away
November 22nd, 2008 at 8:43 am
@DiscoJon “ALBUM TRACKS PEOPLE”
Gee over the 2 nights at a glance i just counted 28 album tracks, 3 b-sides, 5 covers, 8 new songs and a drum solo.
As for people here being on Corgans dick maybe you should read through some of the posts and be amazed by how objective everyone here has been about this current tour wether it be negitive or positive and if the band just isn’t for you anymore walk the fuck away
November 22nd, 2008 at 10:05 am
in my opinion…if the band were to come out and drop the singles and walk off of stage, making all of the “casual” fans happy (which i realize are a majority of the crowd), and put no passion or creativity into their shows… i would consider them sell-outs. i love the fact that they do what suits them artistically, regardless of what the naysayers say. i wish they would completely adhere to that stance and hell,…if they dont want to play bullet, don’t. to stay true to themselves as a band, they need to do what makes them enjoy themselves and not just play the hits for some cash. i don’t want billy, the robot to get up there and play exactly what i would hear on an album version. boooring. i love the spacey jams and kazoo solos. i love to see real people on stage having a passion for what they are doing on stage, regardless of whether or not it is “cool” to all the sheeple in the seats. i get so sick of all of the negativity i see and hear from the pumkin community and that is why i frequent hu instead of the other fan-sites…(not naming and names *COUGH-Netphoria*). at least MOST of the time, any critisism around these past usually has some intelligent thought behind it.
anyway. haha. i love what they are doing. i want them to grow and progress as a band and if i never hear BWBW or Today again because of that, i think i will be okay.
im just saying. ;)
November 22nd, 2008 at 10:38 am
If those other “alternative” bands are playing only hits or only album tracks at their shows then they’ve forgotten (or never knew in the first place) what the term “alternative” was supposed to mean.
November 22nd, 2008 at 12:43 pm
DiscoJon:
your argument is that SP should play their shows exactly like Weezer, Oasis, Foo Fighters, R.E.M because that would somehow please you and the rest of the crowd? its up to them to fall in line and be like every other band? The problem with the other bands that have reunited over the years like the Police, Rage Against the Machine, Van Halen is that they aren’t interested in growing as a band and they are very aware that they are on stage to simply play the album tracks that you desire so much and then they can cash their checks. I think SP wants more than that. not to mention I think playing these longer jams and new songs “nobody likes” is a good way to weed out the assholes who go to these shows.
November 22nd, 2008 at 12:52 pm
See, I was right. He’s just a troll. I can spot em, easy.
Rather than make a real arugment for anything he said or respond to jjb, which he can’t cause he doesn’t have one, he tries to bait us again. His best argument isn’t even an argument, it’s just sarcasm - as if that makes his idiotic “bitchy” post justified.
Yeah, you sure showed us up!
November 22nd, 2008 at 1:44 pm
Brain: You know, I think you just let a troll get to you jjb. He didn’t even have a real argument. “Seriously” was his argument. Did you have to respond to him at such a length?
No. But I wasn’t ONLY writing to him — this post seemed like an appropriate place to lay out those numbers, for anyone/everyone who might be reading. Also, while he didn’t make an argument, maybe he or someone else thinks he did. I don’t think I’d talked with him before…sometimes the non-elitist part of me thinks someone shows enough hope to deserve at least a first chance. After all, he did manage to leave Netphoria in order to make the comment, which is behavior that should be encouraged (among non-trolls, that is!).
November 22nd, 2008 at 3:01 pm
But you have talked to him before, let me show you.
DiscoJon: “You guys here at Hipster’s United need to get off Billy’s dick”.
Davin: “please get off Jim DeRo’s dick”
It is clearly Davin in disguise. He would’ve appeared under his known alias but I’ve shamed into taking another. Either that or he took my advice to stick a dick in his mouth and shut the fuck up for a while.
You have to understand that trolls don’t have independent minds or thoughts. They work as a collective whole, like bees or ants or something. They have the same language, culture and inbreeding issues. That’s why they reside in the dark caves that netphoria provides, away from the eyes of social workers, who would place these angry teens in homes with true love, education and guidance.
November 22nd, 2008 at 5:28 pm
Self-Respecting Brain made me laugh. But the point about trolls not having independent thoughts was poignant. As I was leaving the show last night, which was amazing, I heard random comments from drunk people around me who did not enjoy the show, making complaints about the show that made me wonder if they had just seen the same show that I did. And then it occurred to me that some of these people were saying things that sounded just like they had grabbed them from someone else’s criticism of a different show. It was like people wanted something to complain about and had latched onto this show or Billy or certain songs as things to complain about and thereby fall in line with what other people had been bitching about. Maybe it makes them feel part of something bigger and that is really important to them, I don’t know.
That being said, whether or not jjb should’ve given DiscoJon the benefit of the doubt and responded to him as an intelligent person, what jjb said made me feel better because I’ve gotten so tired of the crap I’ve been hearing about these shows, so I’m glad he said it.
November 23rd, 2008 at 12:20 am
Melanie, that’s an interesting point that you make because most people are indeed conformists. I wonder how many of the people who disliked the shows are actually doing so because they have an independent opinion. I’d say very few. It seems more likely that they are just following the crowd, they read reviews like the one above and adopt that opinion because it’s easier than thinking for themselves. A cascade then builds… If the majority of people are critising a band, then somebody who can’t decide for themselves what they think just jumps on the bandwagon.
With SP having always having had bad reviews from the media it is not surprising at all that every journalist comes up with the same bad review and that so many fans adopt the same false belief, such as that they are not playing the hits, when it is clear that the hits are as present as they ever were. This whole movement of being overly critical of sp probably began with just one or two negative reviews and grew from there.
November 23rd, 2008 at 6:40 pm
“This whole movement of being overly critical of sp probably began with just one or two negative reviews and grew from there.”
this happened a long time ago, as it is the norm now.
November 26th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
[…] musical decline? What about a link to concert setlists that demonstrate Corgan’s supposed refusal to play hits? Maybe a discussion of Corgan’s possible intent with regard to his […]
November 29th, 2008 at 11:33 am
[…] Yesterday, the Canadian public radio program “Q” dedicated fifteen minutes to a discussion of the question of whether concert attendees “deserve to hear the hits,” framing the discussion inside an at-times withering attack on the current tour by the Smashing Pumpkins (which, oddly, is a tour on which the Pumpkins are playing all of their biggest hits). […]
February 23rd, 2009 at 8:43 am
How do music journalists get their jobs if they 1. know nothing about music and/or 2. do not keep in touch with the music scene?? I constantly read articles from people who have no knowledge of music and/or who do not even go see shows!! Just imagine blasting a band for not playing hits when they actually do. I wish Billy would crack some of these idiots in the face, or at least hire me to do the job….LOL!!